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Re: Revamp NPCs and drops
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:11 am 
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Cleroth has got decent ideas on AI dating back to 2012. Don't get me wrong, I've even given him feedback on some of them and we've been discussing changes in that regard.

Thing is, those ideas were rather in the direction of bots that would simulate PvP, which is something that hasn't seen the light of day in this thread.

Then again, I'm afraid he's rather thinking strategically — implements stuff, which doesn't necessarily improve HB, but rather grant him additional knowledge that allows him to develop further games. Not that it is a bad thing, I'm just not keen on the idea to use HB as a sandbox.


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Re: Revamp NPCs and drops
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:13 pm 
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No, I just thought I could change HB to make it interesting for me. Clearly I can't. Which means I just lose interest in HB.
I'm mostly a PvM guy, and the PvM in this game is anything but fun. It's just grinding. But apparently people here love that, so let's just keep it that way I guess?
All of your arguments are seriously incredibly silly. The fact that you think tigerworms SHOULD be lured is ridiculous by itself. I mean, why even make mobs do damage? It's a PvP, game, let's just make all npcs do no damage, that way it's just much easier to kill everything, and they won't be annoying anymore!


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Re: Revamp NPCs and drops
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:06 pm 
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Tigerworms have to be lured, when one wants hunt IW at the pit, where TWs are simply in the way.

Otherwise there are two ways to hunt TWs efficiently — with a tank healed and blocked by two mages and a row of archers aiming the tank (in order to waste no arrows) with direction bows.
Another way to do it is to have two warriors with SOTs on both ends and a couple of blizz mages yet again on both ends, finally a support to AMP everybody.

I personally love to come up with different ways to hunt big monsters in a group with our without taking damage — explain roles to people, lure monsters, shape pits, etc.

What I do not understand is that attitude — "let's make monsters do no damage". That's childish imo. No one here went into extremes. Neither me, nor Richtofen, nor Colt said anything like that.
It's just in a game, where PvM equals DROPS, people will make anything to hunt as quickly as possible, hence maximize drops.

Now if you truly want to change that — introduce skills, which allow players to craft items that are far better than those obtainable through drops. This way PvM wont be played primarily for the drops, but rather for fun. This works perfectly fine in another Korean MMORPG.


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Re: Revamp NPCs and drops
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:09 pm 
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Cleroth wrote:
No, I just thought I could change HB to make it interesting for me. Clearly I can't. Which means I just lose interest in HB.
I'm mostly a PvM guy, and the PvM in this game is anything but fun. It's just grinding. But apparently people here love that, so let's just keep it that way I guess?
All of your arguments are seriously incredibly silly. The fact that you think tigerworms SHOULD be lured is ridiculous by itself. I mean, why even make mobs do damage? It's a PvP, game, let's just make all npcs do no damage, that way it's just much easier to kill everything, and they won't be annoying anymore!



Why shouldn't they be lured? I could agree with this is they were in the middle of a Wyw pit, but they are it would be stupid if they couldn't while being in that spot.

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Re: Revamp NPCs and drops
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:34 pm 
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Come on!

If I had to develop game with this level of scepticism, who is right and who is wrong...

I would say: Keep your jack!, and walk away to more welcoming society for my contribution, wouldn't you ?


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Re: Revamp NPCs and drops
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:35 pm 
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That's the point of the PvM revamp, to remove these "we have to do this boring thing because otherwise it doesn't work or isn't as fast."
It's more like, "do you have to lure it?" yes. "Should you?" No. The NPC and the pit just isn't balanced correctly, and thus it requires stupid exploits like making it stuck.
Another good example is IGs. The fact that you can be completely immune to it by just casting AMP is silly.


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Re: Revamp NPCs and drops
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:59 pm 
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Cleroth wrote:
Another good example is IGs. The fact that you can be completely immune to it by just casting AMP is silly


Same goes with DE and PFA ;p


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Re: Revamp NPCs and drops
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:30 pm 
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Funnily enough, I was just talking about how you could use DEs to your advantage if your getting chased. If you got PFA'd, you could turn towards the DEs, and with better AI, DEs would just ignore the PFA'd person anyway, so they would aim the chasers. Now... you could call that annoying, and I would call it strategy and diversity. Using your environment to your advantage. If you want to fight evently anyway, open world isn't the way to go, and you should just PvP in the league.


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Re: Revamp NPCs and drops
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:23 pm 
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Cleroth wrote:
Funnily enough, I was just talking about how you could use DEs to your advantage if your getting chased. If you got PFA'd, you could turn towards the DEs, and with better AI, DEs would just ignore the PFA'd person anyway, so they would aim the chasers. Now... you could call that annoying, and I would call it strategy and diversity. Using your environment to your advantage. If you want to fight evently anyway, open world isn't the way to go, and you should just PvP in the league.


Using DE to escape tactic is very old and is most efficient with use of inv pot - when it comes to fight with DE itself when you attack som1 on DE pit you basically always go on PFA anyway. My example was more about IG pit being for mage and DE for war - with pfa you simply hit them with no chance of dying but on DE pit there can exp like 3-4 wars on IG pit 1 mage here is the biggest difference;p(not to mention that getting to t3 takes some time so most ppl dont want to waste time for that so its also a safer spot:D).

I like the PvP league idea a lot but i hope PvP will still be present in daily server routine as it was ;p

I can tell that you working hard on Oly3 but communication between you and players is hmm poor ;p - if its possible it would be nice if you could give any update - there is no need of deadline but still any info is usually better than none...


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Re: Revamp NPCs and drops
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:54 pm 
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apt wrote:
It's just in a game, where PvM equals DROPS, people will make anything to hunt as quickly as possible, hence maximize drops.

Now if you truly want to change that — introduce skills, which allow players to craft items that are far better than those obtainable through drops. This way PvM wont be played primarily for the drops, but rather for fun. This works perfectly fine in another Korean MMORPG.


For fun ? huh? Fun pvm is when you need to organise a group and use a strategy,if pit or solo mobs had no chance to drop a good item i simply would not hunt them .

Oly has a long list of mobs i simply will not hunt for that reason.


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